The Animal Wellness Podcast

For decades, the world’s top soccer players laced up boots made from the skins of wild kangaroos. Manufacturers claimed kangaroo leather offered unmatched performance, and millions of kangaroos were commercially killed across Australia each year to supply the global athletic footwear industry.
That story has changed dramatically.
In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines one of the most successful corporate animal-protection campaigns of recent years: the effort to eliminate kangaroo leather from elite soccer.
Joining the program are Wayne Pacelle, president of the Center for a Humane Economy, and Ryan Luterman-Sevel, director of social media and the campaign’s resident numbers guy.
Ryan’s detailed research tracked every player at the 2026 FIFA World Cup, documenting which boots they wore throughout the tournament. The results were striking. Just four years after kangaroo leather was already beginning to decline, only one player initially appeared to be wearing kangaroo-leather boots at the 2026 World Cup—and by the tournament’s later rounds, even that player had switched to synthetic footwear.
The conversation explores:
Why kangaroo leather became the industry standard for elite soccer boots.
How synthetic materials now outperform traditional leather in many respects.
The six-year Kangaroos Are Not Shoes campaign and the strategy behind it.
Why major brands including Nike, adidas, Puma, New Balance, ASICS, Mizuno and Diadora moved away from kangaroo leather.
How consumer pressure, corporate engagement and legislative advocacy combined to change an entire marketplace.
What the disappearance of kangaroo leather at the World Cup means for wildlife conservation and animal welfare.
What lessons this campaign offers for future efforts to replace animal-derived products with humane alternatives.
The episode also discusses the science of modern performance materials, the myths surrounding kangaroo leather, and how sustained advocacy can produce measurable, global change—even within industries long considered resistant to reform.
Whether you’re a soccer fan, an advocate for wildlife, or simply interested in how campaigns influence major corporations, this episode offers an inside look at how persistence, data and strategic advocacy helped transform one of the world’s most recognizable sporting traditions.
Guests
Wayne PacellePresident, Center for a Humane Economy and Animal Wellness Action
Ryan Luterman-SevelDirector of Social Media, Center for a Humane Economy and Animal Wellness Action
Learn More
Center for a Humane Economy
Animal Wellness Action
Kangaroos Are Not Shoes campaign
Subscribe
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends and colleagues. Your support helps us continue bringing you conversations about the people and campaigns advancing animal protection around the world.
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

What began as one of the largest dog rescue efforts in American history may become a turning point in the movement to end animal testing.
In this special episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove takes listeners inside the remarkable rescue of approximately 1,500 beagles from Ridglan Farms in Wisconsin, a commercial breeding facility that supplied dogs for laboratory experimentation.
Drawn from a record-setting national webinar, this episode features the voices of the people who helped make the rescue possible — including advocates, rescuers, policymakers, and public figures who are now working to ensure fewer animals ever enter laboratories in the first place.
You'll hear from:
• Wayne Pacelle, president of the Center for a Humane Economy and Animal Wellness Action
• Shannon Keith, founder of the Beagle Freedom ProjectCongressman Nick Langworthy of New York
• Debbie Gibson, pop legend and actress
• Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath
• Stacy Kivowitz, chair of Animal Wellness Action
• Muriel Van Hoosen, chair of the Center for a Humane Economy
Together, they explore the rescue itself, the challenges of rehabilitating animals who have never experienced normal life, and the growing scientific and political movement to replace outdated animal testing with modern technologies.
This episode examines:
• The inside story of the Ridglan beagle rescue
• What life was like for dogs bred for laboratory experimentation
• The enormous logistics of moving and rehoming 1,500 animals
• Why animal testing remains embedded in federal policy
• New technologies that could replace animal experimentation
• The bipartisan effort to modernize testing requirements
• What advocates are doing now to prevent future generations of animals from entering laboratories
The rescue of these beagles captured national attention. But as our guests make clear, the larger mission is just beginning.
Listen now to hear how compassion, science, and public policy are converging to challenge a system that has remained largely unchanged for decades.
Take action! Visit this link today to tell your elected officials in Washington that you want an end to the use of taxpayer dollars spent on tests on dogs and cats.
Subscribe, rate, and share the Animal Wellness Podcast to help amplify the movement for a more humane future.
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.
 ABOUT
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

Ten years ago, Wayne Pacelle, head of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, made a disruptive case in “The Humane Economy: How Innovators and Enlightened Consumers Are Transforming the Lives of Animals.” He argued that the biggest gains for animals would come not just from laws, but from the marketplace—through corporate pressure, consumer demand, and economic incentives.
 
Today, that vision is being tested in a far more adversarial landscape.
 
In this episode, host Joseph Grove speaks with Pacelle about the state of the “humane economy” amid intensifying political and corporate pushback. While companies have made high-profile commitments on cage-free systems and alternatives to animal testing, powerful industry interests are now working to unwind those gains.
 
At the center of the fight: federal efforts to override state laws like California’s Prop 12 and Massachusetts’ Question 3—voter-approved measures designed to curb extreme confinement of farm animals. These battles raise a critical question: can market-driven progress endure when political forces intervene to reverse it?
 
They discuss:
 
The growing backlash against animal welfare laws in Congress
Corporate follow-through—and where companies are retreating
The role of multinational corporations and consolidation in shaping outcomes
Whether consumers are driving change—or being priced out of it
Breakthroughs in plant-based innovation and non-animal testing
Why voluntary corporate action has limits—and where regulation is indispensable
 
Pacelle also addresses a central tension: if the humane economy is working, why are we seeing such aggressive efforts to dismantle its gains?
 
This is a candid, high-stakes conversation about power, policy, and the future of animal protection in an era of competing economic interests.
 
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

What if the idea that humans stand above all other animals isn’t a scientific truth—but a cultural myth?
 
In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove is joined by primatologist and NYU professor Christine Webb, author of “The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters,” for a wide-ranging conversation about how deeply ingrained beliefs about human superiority shape our relationship with animals—and the consequences of getting that relationship wrong.
 
Drawing on her research into the cognitive, emotional, and social lives of nonhuman animals, Webb challenges the notion that humans are categorically different from other species. Instead, she makes the case for “continuity”—the idea that differences between humans and other animals are differences of degree, not kind.
 
Together, they explore:
 
How anthropocentric thinking shapes science, language, and culture
Why the belief in human superiority persists—even in the face of evidence
What we gain—ethically and existentially—by rethinking our place in the natural world
 
If we are to build a more humane and sustainable future, it may begin with a simple but profound shift: seeing ourselves not above the animal world, but within it.
 
LEARN MORE
The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters is available for purchase here and wherever books are sold. To learn more about Christine Webb, visit her website here.
 
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ

Military working dogs are among the most highly trained and loyal members of America’s armed forces. They detect explosives, patrol bases, and protect U.S. service members in some of the world’s most dangerous environments. Their work saves lives.
But what happens when these animals, who serve alongside our troops, are failed by the very system responsible for their care?
In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines troubling findings from a new investigation by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, raising serious concerns about lapses in veterinary care, oversight failures, and reports of preventable suffering and deaths among military working dogs on U.S. bases.
Joseph is joined by two leading experts who bring a critical perspective to this issue:
Dr. Thomas Pool, a veterinarian and former commander of the U.S. Army Veterinary Command, draws on decades of experience to explain the role of military working dogs, the standards of care they require, and where systemic breakdowns may be occurring within military veterinary systems.
Kate Chupka Schultz, an experienced animal cruelty prosecutor and attorney, provides a legal lens — examining accountability gaps, the evolving status of military working dogs under the law, and what reforms may be necessary to ensure these animals are treated as sentient partners, not expendable equipment.
Together, they explore urgent questions about responsibility, transparency, and reform — and what it means to honor the service of animals who serve in uniform.
To learn more, read the full report and press release at Helping Animals Helps Us All.
ABOUT
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

In this episode of The Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the rapidly changing landscape of American horse racing—an industry facing growing scrutiny over safety, doping, and the welfare of racehorses. A series of high-profile breakdowns and medication scandals, including the troubling spike in horse deaths at Churchill Downs during the 2023 Kentucky Derby week, intensified national concern about the sport’s oversight and long-term viability.
Joseph explores how the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act (HISA) — the most sweeping regulatory reform the sport has seen in generations — created a national authority to enforce uniform safety and anti-doping rules across Thoroughbred racing. But major tensions remain. A high-stakes dispute between regulators and Churchill Downs Incorporated, a company operating roughly 30 racing and gaming properties across 14 states, raises questions about compliance, enforcement, and the future of interstate wagering.
Joining the program is Fred Hudson, CEO of the U.S. Harness Racing Alumni Association and director of equine protection for Animal Wellness Action. Hudson provides an insider’s perspective on whether HISA’s reforms are improving horse welfare, the persistent challenges facing the sport, and what additional protections are still needed for racehorses during and after their racing careers.
 
Together, they discuss the causes of fatal breakdowns, the culture of medication in racing, the implications of industry resistance to federal oversight, and what meaningful reform could look like over the next decade.
 
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

In this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the mounting scientific and policy concerns surrounding lead ammunition — a persistent environmental toxin with consequences that extend far beyond the hunt.
Each year, tons of lead from spent bullets and shotgun pellets are discharged into America’s landscapes. On impact, that lead fragments into carcasses and gut piles, where scavenging wildlife — including bald eagles, golden eagles, condors, hawks, ravens, and foxes — ingest toxic shards. The results are often acute poisoning, neurological impairment, reproductive failure, and death.
But this is not solely a wildlife conservation issue. Lead is a potent neurotoxin with no safe level of exposure. It does not biodegrade, and it can contaminate meat intended for human consumption while persisting in soil and ecosystems for decades.
Joseph is joined by two leading voices at the intersection of science and policy.
Wayne Pacelle, president of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy, discusses the documented toll of lead poisoning on raptors and other wildlife, federal policy debates surrounding National Wildlife Refuges, and the proposed LEAD Act — legislation aimed at reducing toxic ammunition on public lands.
Dr. Aisha S. Dickerson, Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, brings critical scientific insight into how lead behaves biologically, why even low-level exposure can cause lasting neurological harm, and what environmental neuroepidemiology tells us about risks to both wildlife and humans.
Together, they explore:
The biological mechanisms of lead toxicity
Why there is no safe level of exposure
The documented scope of wildlife mortality linked to ammunition fragments
Public health implications for communities and families
Policy pathways and practical alternatives available to hunters
This episode challenges listeners to consider tradition, science, and stewardship — and the responsibility we share in protecting both wildlife and public health.
TAKE ACTION
Go here to learn more about the effects of lead ammunition and to support the LEAD Act referred to in the show.
ABOUT
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove. 
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ 

Dogfighting is often misunderstood as a relic of the past — or as a cruelty confined to the margins of society. In reality, organized fighting networks continue to operate across the United States, leaving behind a pipeline of animals who are brutalized, discarded, and in urgent need of highly specialized care.
In this episode of The Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove examines the continuum between federal policy and frontline rescue work — and why both are essential to ending organized animal cruelty.
He is joined by Rochelle Steffen, founder of Mac’s Mission, a Missouri-based nonprofit rescue whose work “specializes in special.” Her organization focuses on dogs in severe medical crisis: neonatal puppies with congenital defects, survivors of extreme abuse, and animals whose injuries or conditions place them beyond the capacity of traditional shelters.
The conversation also explores the policy dimension of this work, including Animal Wellness Action’s advocacy for the FIGHT Act — federal legislation designed to strengthen enforcement against dogfighting, increase penalties, and disrupt trafficking of fighting paraphernalia.
Listeners will come away with a deeper understanding of:
The modern reality of organized dogfighting
The medical and behavioral challenges faced by surviving dogs
How specialized rescues manage complex, resource-intensive cases
Why federal legislation like the FIGHT Act remains urgently needed
The emotional toll — and rewards — of this work on rescuers
Listeners may learn more at Animal Wellness Action and by visiting Mac’s Mission online.
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.
 
www.animalwellnessaction.org
www.centerforahumaneeconomy.org
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWellnessAction
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AWAction_News
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheHumaneCenter
 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/animalwellnessaction/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerforahumaneeconomy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-wellness-action/ 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_6FxM4hD6oS5VSUwsCnNQ